Preventing Preschool Suspension and Expulsion: Part 2

In this episode Dr. Katie Herron and Lynne Hall from the Early Childhood Center at Indiana University talk about challenging behaviors and how to support children before those behaviors happen.

Transcript

Welcome to the Early Childhood On-the-Go Podcast where the Early Childhood Center team shares ideas and strategies for professionals and families. Dream big, start early. Hi there, this is Dr. Katie Herron with the Early Childhood Center on the IU Bloomington campus. It’s back to school time and we are going to be talking some more about preschool suspension and expulsion, and we’ve got Lynne Hall here with us who’s a Research Associate at the Early Childhood Center. We’ve done a couple of podcasts on preschool suspension and expulsion now, and we’re going to dig today into an important question that I think a lot of our listeners may be asking and that is it’s great to talk about preventative things, and we’ve talked about that. But what do we do when we have a kiddo that’s still struggling, and when I say “struggling,” I mean they’re engaging in challenging behavior and “challenging behavior” is one of those tricky terms, right?  Because who is it challenging for, and what is its purpose? We know that it’s a lot more complicated than that. But we’re going to dig into that today with Lynne because Lynne has a lot of experience in this issue. And I’m gonna let you introduce yourself and then we’ll get started.  Yeah, sure. Hi Katie. So, you have Lynne Hall. I’m a Research Associate at the Early Childhood Center with Dr. Herron and before my time at the Early Childhood Center, I spent many years as a preschool teacher in lots of diverse settings. You did, and you also have a background in the Pyramid Model, which we had said in the last session that we did that the Pyramid Model was used by the Office of Early Childhood and Out of School Learning to develop this preschool suspension and expulsion checklist that we’ve been talking about. So, would you want to talk a little bit about how the preschool model might help us to think about what we do when a kiddo needs more than that foundational level of the pyramid? Yeah, I would be happy to. So, when we think about the Pyramid Model and again, the foundational level that we talked about during the last podcast, here’s the great thing. If we are adopting those practices and we’re able to do them consistently, that is going to be enough support for 80% of our children to be successful. Eighty percent of our kiddos can meet classroom expectations, assuming they’re developmentally appropriate, with those foundational practices in place. We also know that we’re gonna have about 10-to-15% of kiddos that might need some additional support, and then we might have just a few - we’re thinking about 5% -  that really might need that individualized intervention, which we’re looking at developing a behavior plan. Maybe be bringing in a mental health expert, if you will. But for the majority of our kids, they’re gonna be fine. This is good to know, yeah. And it also makes me wonder if we’ve got a program where half the kids are struggling, does that mean we’re probably needing to revisit some of those foundational practices before we?   Absolutely. It’s not like we’re going to send all 50% on, right?  If you were having some significant challenges with a higher percentage of kids, it’s time to take a step back and look at what we’re doing as professionals, how our classroom is set up, our environment, looking at our relationships, that kind of thing. So, I’ll just give you an example that I share in training sometimes when I was teaching. I found this really cool sandbox. Have you heard this story about the sandbox?  Oh, this is the same story. I found this really cool sandbox and I was so excited about it. It was on wheels and kids could stand in and play in it. So, when I brought it into my classroom, I put it in a spot that I thought was perfect because it could fit six kids around it. They were gonna love it. So, kids come in, what I learned very quickly is the children were running around the sandbox because there was plenty of room to get all the way around. The were crawling through the sandbox because there was space between the bins and the wheels to crawl through. They were also doing what I called “drive by” where they would walk by and grab some sand. Now, at first glance, these might look like behavior challenges. I did some thinking. I moved the sandbox. I put it over by the sensory center next to a wall. It fit four kids instead of six, little bit off the beaten path. I didn’t have another issue.  I learned very quickly that was not a kid-challenging behavior situation. That was an adult environment situation. So, the first thing that we want to do is take a step back and go, what’s going on here? How can I minimize it?  Well, that’s just one example. And you did that because you noticed that you were having a particular challenge at that place at a particular time when they were able to do that activity. Absolutely. So, that’s important for us to notice what’s happening when we start to feel that frustration as a teacher. Yeah, I mean, we had the, we use our walking feet in the classroom and all the things, right? But I could change it just like that. So, once we’ve gone back and thinking about whatever those individual behaviors might be happening that you’re looking at, and we’ve looked through the checklist practices, we’ve looked at our implementation of those and we think, gosh, you know, I’m doing all of these things, most of the kids are with it; but there’s a few that are having some more challenges. Then we want to think about what the Pyramid Model refers to as “Targeted Supports.”  Ok? So, Targeted Supports are going to be additional strategies that we’re going to implement with those kids that are having some more challenges. They’re still getting everything that we’re doing at the foundational level, but they might be having an additional small group, and so I can give you an example of this too. So, when I was teaching, I had a smaller group of kids that were having a little trouble following directions, let’s say. I would find some time with them during small group time or during maybe it was child-directed play and I was kind of with them to do a little role play, do a little more teaching of that skill with them. Now let’s take that same example and let’s say I’m doing the targeted thing where I’m doing some specific explicit reteaching. We’re doing some practicing. We’re doing all of our foundational stuff. There may be one, let’s say, who still isn’t quite able to follow directions. Then I would think about, ok, is there something even deeper going on here and what do I need to do? And something important to remember when we're talking about targeted and intensive supports is data collection. and this isn't a favorite of teachers because we collect a lot of data, even at the foundational level. But when we're providing targeted or intensive support, we need to know if what we're doing is working, right? So we take our universal data, let's say, for all kinds of outcomes, maybe a couple times a year. We get into targeted support. We want to be looking at some kind of data, at least once a month to say what I'm doing is working, because if it's not we need to change it. And if it's working, then we can back off. If it's not working, maybe we need to think about doing something more intensive. When a child is receiving an individualized or intensive intervention, we want to be taking that data even more, more frequently, likely once a week. And you're talking about the top of the pyramid, and that’s only going to be a couple of kiddos. That's not going to be a lot. One, maybe two.  So, 80% percent most of your kiddos aren't going to need anything. You might have three, four, depending on what your ratio is, you know, a couple of kiddos receiving that targeted and sometimes not are getting intensive. You may have one, maybe two. So, let's take another example. Let's think about transitions, because that's often a challenging time. So, let's say, you know, we've had some free play and we're now going to transition into whatever we're going to do next. And you've talked about expectations with the classroom. Maybe you've, you know, had them contribute to that conversation. You've got them visually posted. You've done those good foundational things so that kids know how transition goes. But you've got a few kids that still struggle and maybe your solution to that  would be targeted, right? Yep. Okay. So, we're in the middle of the pyramid now. And that would look like maybe some of the kids need additional verbal prompts at that time, or maybe they need a reminder to look at the pictures on the walls. Sometimes,  you can just call their name and point to your visual. Okay. So, you've got that. And when you talk about data for that, I mean, are you recording something? Are you noting when they when they kind of get with the other kids, get with the program? And you're saying like, okay, how do I take data fast and in the moment? I just think sometimes we lose teachers when we start to talk about data. And I just wonder, like, what does that really translate into? So, for me, because I was a busy teacher too, it was reflection, just knowing what's the end of the day. Yeah. So, data can look like just taking a minute to think about, hey, did that strategy work, and you might say, gosh, you know, those extra reminders are really helping three out of the four kids that were still struggling, but I've got this one kiddo who, no matter what I say is not with me. He's not, he's still demanding to stay where he was and struggling and maybe throwing a tantrum if he's, and that's the kiddo that we might push to the top of the pyramid if we continue to have issues. Yes, and oftentimes we'll bring the family in if we're at the very top of the tier, kind of get their input on what's working, what they think might be helpful, that kind of thing. Yeah. And I think that family engagement is so important too, because when we talk to families that have experienced suspension and expulsion, they often say that the only communications they've had is either just letting them know, hey, your kiddo struggled today and did this, he hit the teacher or he did this thing. Or you know, it doesn't seem to be focused on, let's problem solve or we're going to try this different thing, or have you found anything at home that helps you with transitions, doesn't seem to be usually the kind of communication that leads to families contributing meaningfully. And that's what's so fantastic about the checklist. It's reminding you that you've done all of these things that you should have a pretty cordial, if not friendly, relationship with a family, so that if you do have to contact them about something like this, it's not going to be that scary, oh gosh, what is the teacher of the school want now? You have that relationship. You're talking to them. So, they know that you have their child's best interest at heart, and they feel like a partner and part of the problem solving with you. Right. So that's just a plug for good old family engagement. It's kind of one of those things. It's hard to do anything without that one. I do wonder, there's been some research that  suggests that kiddos that are chronically absent, I'm taking us a little bit off, but it'll come back, that kiddos that are chronically absent in early childhood, are less liked by the teacher and  that we think about what is the impact then of that around kiddos again, at the beginning of their academic journey. And I do wonder, I think when whenever we have kiddos that have challenging behavior of any kind, we sometimes, as humans find that they're not our favorites, but we know that relationship is important and we know that positivity is important. Have you found anything as a teacher that has helped you with the kiddos that you are targeting or doing intensive work with to keep that relationship intact? So, again, if this is another,  practice from the pyramid model. If you can build up your positive feedback, specific positive feedback for children, especially ones that need it the most, that might be that tier one, it can I don't know if there's a psychological basis for this or not, but you will start to see more positive things when you are intentionally looking for those positive things. And the more positive things that you can report on, the more positive feedback that you can give to the child and the family, it can make a shift in that relationship and in the way that you're feeling. So, you may have to grit your teeth at first, because I know and I do think this is a psychological phenomenon, but, you know, how many of us, when our husbands don't throw their socks in the laundry bin, we're like, oh, for goodness’ sake, how hard is it? But when they do, do we ever say anything? Like, we just assume that what they did, what they were supposed to, I'm not supposed to comment on that. And I  do think that trickles down to our kids. You know, when they do something that we think they should know, even if they often don't do it, and we've commented that they haven't done it, we don't tend to turn around and say, hey you, well done, because we think - oh, they should already know that. That's not something above and beyond that I need to praise, but really, if we can grit our teeth and offer that praise, I do think that, you know, then we are going to, it can be a game changer, it's a rolling ball, right? It gets bigger and bigger and let’s see if we can push it down the hill. Absolutely. Are there anything else in terms of those targeted or intensive practices that you want to highlight? I think the most important thing again is the tier one, right? And the self-reflection piece because I think a lot of times what we think we're doing, what we know we should do and what we're actually doing that those things don't always align. And it's important to be reflective and aware and to make changes when we need to. And I think that's why so many early childhood programs have embraced coaching in some format, whether it's an internal coach or a peer coach or somebody from the outside coming in. And I feel like folks who have been in the field for awhile can find that intimidating, but the goal is to allow for that space for a reflection and to have somebody who is an observer be able to provide an outside perspective to build on that reflection. So, I agree. It's hard to make time for that, but it is really valuable. And I would just add, it can be challenging to you to think, okay, I know there's a child that needs some kind of targeted support. I don't know what to do. I don't know what to try. The pyramid model website does have resources available. They have social stories, they have lists of different kinds of strategies, both for targeted and intensive. You can reach out to us here, Lynne Hall, the Early Childhood Center. I'd also be happy to help. But there are resources to support you with helping kiddos. Yeah, if you Google the Pyramid Model, not only are there handouts and articles, but there are a great deal of videos in family facing materials as well, that might be a nice conversation starter with families, as you bring them into the process. Okay, well, thank you. Those were some great concrete ideas and I'm sure this won't be the last time we're talking about challenging behavior in early childhood, but thank you. Yeah, thank you. Thanks for listening to the Early Childhood On-the-Go Podcast from the Early Childhood Center team at Indiana University. Learn more at IIDC.indiana.edu/ecc/.